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An Eye-Opening Conversation with Podcast Legend Tim Ferriss

The speaker discusses how their advice will change their operations and mentions turning away millions of dollars. They talk about experiencing a complete implosion on every level and emphasize the importance of a statement made by someone else. The speaker expresses excitement about being interviewed by Tim Ferriss and shares their admiration for him and his show. They highlight the success and impact of Tim Ferriss' show and books and explain why he is uniquely qualified to give advice. The speaker states that Tim Ferriss' frameworks and knowledge can be applied to any field and reflects on how listening to his show inspired their career. They ask Tim Ferriss about his first impactful guest, and he shares his experience of interviewing Ed Catmull. Tim Ferriss discusses the learning process of interviewing and building relationships with guests. The speaker asks Tim Ferriss about the evolution of YouTube and podcasting, and he attributes Joe Rogan's success to his effective use of video. Tim Ferriss explains how he started paying attention to video after noticing Joe Rogan's rise in popularity. The speaker discusses the impact of video on growth and the resistance to it due to reasons for starting podcasting. They mention the flexibility of podcasting with travel and remote recording and how video changes the dynamic and requires more considerations. The speaker advises creators to tailor their format to their lifestyle and discusses the challenges and benefits of video podcasting. They mention the energy impact of video and the importance of playing the long game for sustainability and competition. The speaker also discusses recognizability and privacy concerns with video and the hesitance to do anything that will make them more recognizable. They praise the interviewers for their skills and explain that they are in LA to be more social. The speaker admits to being a student of interviewing and wanting to learn from the interviewers. They consider themselves an eternal blue belt in interviewing and appreciate the social aspect of their job. The speaker discusses their attraction to fame and their goal of being in the entertainment world. They talk about the rewards they expected from their work and reflect on the levels of notoriety they have achieved. The speaker asks the interviewers about their relationship with fame and notoriety and shares their initial desire for fame and the positive aspects they associated with it. They discuss the challenges and unexpected experiences that come with fame and mention a friend's warning about its challenges. The speaker shares a personal experience of people showing up at their house due to their public exposure and reflects on the upsides and downsides of fame, including the lack of privacy. They talk about the difficulty of finding a quiet place to work and discuss the impact of long-form content on parasocial relationships. The speaker mentions the positive aspects of the parasocial relationship and warns about its potential pathological and weird aspects. They encourage individuals to examine their desire for fame and consider the consequences and alternatives. The speaker believes that the half-life of fame is getting shorter and advises caution in pursuing it. They mention that fame in traditional paths may have a longer half-life compared to independent content creation. The speaker discusses the risk of working all the time in a permissionless environment and predicts that curators will become important again. They talk about testing products and services before recommending them and the future of niche curated mini Oprahs. The speaker mentions that starting with low-paying brand deals is common for young creators and discusses the importance of credibility and trust in the business. They highlight the criteria for maintaining relationships with partners and emphasize the importance of vetting potential sponsors. The speaker shares a story about turning away sponsors and the potential financial risks of accepting certain deals. They compare the relationship with sponsors to dating and highlight the importance of alignment with the product and people. The speaker discusses the concept of firing clients and being in control of the arrangement. They talk about the different approaches to monetization and the importance of setting boundaries and saying no. The speaker mentions that having a source of income is helpful when starting a creative project and discusses the ease of experimenting with low-cost platforms. They mention that most people who start creative projects don't have lifestyle boundaries in place and discuss Tim Ferriss' personal crisis that led to a correction in his lifestyle. The speaker talks about Tim Ferriss' teaching classes that turned into "The 4-Hour Workweek" and his considerations regarding podcast deals. They discuss the risks and time involved in investing in startups and advising them. The speaker mentions Tim Ferriss' premium ad rates and his journey from a 60 CPM rate to Ultra Premium. They discuss the importance of quality of audience and partnerships and the impact of YouTube's public view count on advertisers' perception. The speaker predicts challenges for startups spending heavily on podcasts and YouTube and advises caution in taking equity deals. They discuss the question of whether one wants to run a business or just likes the idea of it. The speaker focuses on interviewing hard-to-reach guests and discusses collaborations in the YouTube culture. They give examples of playing the long game and discuss the process of interviewing and vetting guests. The speaker thanks Tim Ferriss for helpful advice and discusses his experience and success in podcasting. They talk about being shaped by the audience, trends, and the market and emphasize the importance of authenticity. The speaker discusses the law of category and differentiation, making sacrifices for referrals and credibility, and setting realistic financial goals. They encourage finding personal fulfillment and contributing to a community and advise holding on to projects lightly and trying new things. The speaker suggests borrowing good questions from various sources and focusing on major tasks that make a significant impact. They discuss the importance of fear setting in decision-making and stress testing ideas. The speaker mentions manufacturing issues and brainstorming solutions, recovering from damage, and applying fear setting to various situations. They discuss experimenting with podcast formats and how fear setting helps drive without an emergency brake. The speaker mentions the Saisei Foundation and encourages people to join the email list for updates.


Key Points

(00:00:00) - The speaker discusses how their advice will change the way they operate. (00:00:04) - The speaker mentions turning away millions of dollars and explains why. (00:00:12) - The speaker talks about experiencing a complete implosion on every level. (00:00:15) - The speaker emphasizes the importance of a statement made by someone else. (00:00:23) - The speaker expresses excitement about being interviewed by Tim Ferriss. (00:00:30) - The speaker shares their admiration for Tim Ferriss and his show. (00:00:45) - The speaker highlights the success and impact of Tim Ferriss' show and books. (00:01:03) - The speaker explains why Tim Ferriss is uniquely qualified to give advice. (00:01:19) - The speaker states that the frameworks and knowledge shared by Tim Ferriss can be applied to any field. (00:01:29) - The speaker reflects on how listening to Tim Ferriss' show inspired their career. (00:02:09) - The speaker asks Tim Ferriss about his first guest that made an impact. (00:02:16) - Tim Ferriss shares his experience of interviewing Ed Catmull. (00:03:07) - Tim Ferriss reflects on the nervousness and eventual success of the interview with Ed Catmull. (00:04:00) - Tim Ferriss discusses the learning process of interviewing and building relationships with guests. (00:05:00) - The speaker asks Tim Ferriss about the evolution of YouTube and podcasting. (00:06:26) - Tim Ferriss attributes Joe Rogan's success to his effective use of video on YouTube. (00:08:13) - Tim Ferriss explains how he started paying attention to video after noticing Joe Rogan's rise in popularity. (00:08:42) - Video is the driver of growth (00:09:00) - Podcasters moving to video for growth (00:09:28) - Resistance to video due to reasons for starting podcasting (00:10:18) - Flexibility of podcasting with travel and remote recording (00:11:30) - Video changes the dynamic and requires more considerations (00:12:23) - Creators should tailor their format to their lifestyle (00:13:03) - Video podcasting changed the dynamic and required adjustments (00:14:06) - Video can be energy additive or depleting depending on the person (00:15:32) - Playing the long game is important for sustainability and competition (00:16:02) - Recognizability and privacy concerns with video (00:16:59) - Hesitance to do anything that will make the speaker more recognizable (00:17:15) - The speaker praises the interviewers for their interviewing skills. (00:17:24) - The speaker explains that they are in LA to be more social and less focused on work. (00:18:00) - The speaker admits to being a student of interviewing and wants to learn from the interviewers. (00:18:14) - The speaker considers themselves an eternal blue belt when it comes to interviewing. (00:18:24) - The speaker appreciates the social aspect of their job and meeting new people. (00:18:38) - The speaker discusses their attraction to fame and their goal of being in the entertainment world. (00:19:15) - The speaker talks about the rewards they expected from their work, including fame and money. (00:19:50) - The speaker reflects on the levels of notoriety they have achieved and the positive experiences it brings. (00:20:10) - The speaker asks the interviewers about their relationship with fame and notoriety. (00:20:23) - The speaker shares their initial desire for fame and the positive aspects they associated with it. (00:21:05) - The speaker discusses the challenges and unexpected experiences that come with fame. (00:21:17) - The speaker mentions a friend's warning about the challenges of fame. (00:22:05) - The speaker shares a personal experience of people showing up at their house due to their public exposure. (00:23:10) - The speaker reflects on the upsides and downsides of fame, including the lack of privacy. (00:24:04) - The speaker talks about the difficulty of finding a quiet place to work due to their public recognition. (00:24:28) - The speaker discusses the impact of long-form content on parasocial relationships and the influence it can have on the listener. (00:25:13) - The speaker discusses the parasocial relationship between content creators and their audience. (00:25:35) - The speaker mentions that the parasocial relationship has been positive for podcasters and advertisers. (00:26:00) - The speaker shares a personal experience of purchasing a product based on an advertisement from the content creator. (00:26:12) - The speaker expresses initial skepticism towards personal development content but eventually becomes more open to it due to the authenticity of the content creator. (00:26:43) - The speaker discusses the strength of the parasocial relationship in long-format content, especially in audio-only formats. (00:27:16) - The speaker mentions that most listeners they encounter are cool and acknowledge the one-sided nature of the relationship. (00:27:49) - The speaker warns about the potential pathological and weird aspects of the parasocial relationship. (00:28:00) - The speaker encourages individuals to examine their desire for fame and consider the consequences and alternatives. (00:28:20) - The speaker believes that the half-life of fame is getting shorter and it will be increasingly difficult to sustain attention from a dedicated audience. (00:29:02) - The speaker suggests that fame in traditional paths, such as sports or acting, may have a longer half-life compared to independent content creation. (00:29:29) - The speaker mentions that sustaining attention in independent publishing is challenging due to the absence of permission to stop or pivot. (00:31:09) - The speaker discusses the risk of working all the time in a permissionless environment. (00:31:35) - The speaker predicts that curators will become important again due to the high volume of content available. (00:33:36) - Curators will be necessary to prevent choice exhaustion (00:34:02) - Testing products and services before recommending them is crucial for credibility (00:34:45) - Niche curated mini Oprahs in different categories are the future (00:35:03) - Starting with low-paying brand deals is common for young creators (00:35:30) - Skillshare was the first brand deal that proved the model (00:36:03) - Credibility and trust are the foundation of the business (00:36:39) - Anatomy of a good ad partner: product/service first, credibility, and trust (00:37:45) - Handling ad sales internally to save costs (00:38:04) - Testing products/services personally or through back channels (00:39:01) - Would I use it and recommend it to my friends? Binary decision (00:40:29) - Easy to deal with partners are preferred (00:41:37) - Strict criteria for maintaining relationships with partners (00:41:55) - Negotiation is unlikely to change terms (00:42:03) - Target audience: Ted, movers and shakers, journalists (00:42:18) - Paying more to reach specific audience (00:42:27) - Need to ensure sponsor's long-term success (00:42:54) - Saying yes too quickly creates busy work (00:43:09) - Checking dubious claims and citations (00:43:27) - Tim freestyles the final cut (00:43:43) - Mandatory three spots for premium podcast (00:44:07) - Vetting sponsors' funding position (00:44:23) - Looking for technical glitches on landing page (00:44:55) - Negotiating better tracking deals (00:45:46) - Sending traffic to a well-optimized website (00:48:00) - Vetting brand partners to avoid controversy (00:49:22) - Vetting by personality and credibility (00:49:41) - Employees not content-related (00:49:52) - The speaker is obsessed with an elegant process and enjoys pushing back on assumptions. (00:50:10) - The speaker emphasizes the importance of vetting potential sponsors and not being someone's biggest marketing spend. (00:51:14) - The speaker shares a story about turning away sponsors and the potential financial risks of accepting certain deals. (00:53:06) - The speaker compares the relationship with sponsors to dating and highlights the importance of alignment with the product and people. (00:53:41) - The speaker mentions giving feedback to brands about problematic features and the potential impact on their audience. (00:55:17) - The speaker discusses the concept of firing clients and being in control of the arrangement. (00:56:28) - The speaker talks about the different approaches to monetization and the importance of setting boundaries and saying no. (00:57:51) - Having a source of income is helpful when starting a creative project (00:58:00) - It's easy to experiment with low-cost platforms like YouTube or podcasts (00:58:17) - Most people who start creative projects don't have lifestyle boundaries in place (00:58:45) - Tim Ferriss experienced a personal crisis that led to a correction in his lifestyle (00:59:24) - Tim Ferriss started teaching classes that eventually turned into "The 4-Hour Workweek" (01:00:29) - Tim Ferriss has not taken equity in podcast deals, but has considered it (01:01:34) - Investing in startups carries risks and can take a long time for returns (01:03:34) - Advising startups requires time and has a higher downside risk than investing (01:04:28) - Tim Ferriss keeps his ad rates premium and could potentially charge more (01:05:41) - Tim Ferriss started with a 60 CPM rate, which was considered high at the time (01:06:00) - The party reads were short and did not tie into the hosts in any meaningful way. (01:06:11) - The speaker believes their conversions could be four times better and possibly even ten times better. (01:06:19) - The speaker aims for Ultra Premium and believes there is always a market for the best. (01:06:31) - The speaker thinks negotiating rates to appease bargain-hunting advertisers is where trouble arises. (01:06:55) - The speaker approaches long-form content with complex subjects and difficult-to-reach guests. (01:07:12) - The speaker wants to attract an audience that would be valuable and charge whatever they want. (01:07:39) - The speaker discusses the importance of quality of audience and partnerships in their career. (01:08:01) - YouTube's public view count creates a new layer of complexity and affects advertisers' perception. (01:08:09) - The speaker prefers the lack of transparency on other platforms, as advertisers pay less attention to it. (01:09:31) - The speaker predicts that many startups spending heavily on podcasts and YouTube will face challenges and potentially go out of business. (01:10:45) - The speaker advises caution in taking equity deals due to the risk of down rounds and getting wiped out. (01:13:36) - The speaker discusses the question of whether one wants to run a business or just likes the idea of it. (01:14:17) - Collaborations are a significant aspect of YouTube culture, and the speaker focuses on interviewing hard-to-reach guests. (01:14:41) - Examples of playing the long game: Schwarzenegger (1.5 years), Hugh Jackman (2+ years), Jamie Foxx (2+ years) (01:15:21) - Removing the hurdle of getting guests to a studio by offering remote recording (01:16:13) - All guests have Final Cut to edit their interviews (01:16:27) - High degree of confidence in guest quality due to background work and vetting (01:17:00) - Asking guests for their favorite long form interviews to identify interesting topics (01:19:11) - Taking 5-10 minutes to talk and warm up before starting the interview (01:20:14) - Asking guests what would make the interview a home run for them (01:21:00) - Letting guests know where the interview will start to avoid stumbling at the beginning (01:21:43) - Ensuring a smooth takeoff by setting a comfortable tone in the first 10 minutes (01:22:46) - Tim Ferriss thanks the interviewer for helpful advice (01:23:00) - Tim Ferriss has recorded 664 episodes and nearing a billion downloads (01:23:08) - Tim Ferriss asked if he has ever been at odds with his public persona (01:24:07) - Interviewers explain their ability to keep track of information during interviews (01:25:40) - Interviewers discuss the balance between preparation and natural curiosity (01:26:00) - Tim Ferriss talks about his research and studying habits (01:27:42) - Tim Ferriss discusses being at odds with his persona and the importance of authenticity (01:30:28) - It's easy to be shaped by the audience, trends, and the market (01:31:01) - The law of category: be the only one in your category (01:31:18) - Don't view competitors as competitors, be differentiated (01:31:46) - In the beginning, make sacrifices for referrals and credibility (01:33:18) - There is still space in the podcast world for creators, but it's competitive (01:34:02) - Set realistic financial goals, don't aim for extreme success (01:34:23) - Find personal fulfillment and contribute to a community (01:35:12) - Hold on to projects lightly, avoid expensive commitments (01:35:44) - Don't worry about the grand scheme of things, try new things (01:36:21) - Borrow good questions from various sources (01:37:39) - Focus on major tasks that make a significant impact (01:38:29) - Consider doing the opposite of your usual business processes (01:38:57) - Consider curtailing the ability of your team to make decisions above a certain dollar threshold (01:39:19) - Hypothetically, what happens if you increase the threshold significantly? (01:39:31) - Stress test the policy by removing the threshold for a period of time (01:40:05) - Relevant questions to consider for future decisions (01:40:18) - Fear setting and addressing fears in decision-making (01:41:00) - Fear has been present in the entrepreneur's journey (01:41:30) - Framework for addressing fear and fear setting (01:42:01) - What systems would you put in place for a four-week vacation? (01:42:38) - Fear setting helps manage fears by making them specific and manageable (01:45:06) - Stress test the idea of taking a four-week vacation by examining fears and potential challenges (01:47:03) - Manufacturing issue and brainstorming solutions (01:47:14) - Worst things that could happen (01:47:18) - Ways to minimize the likelihood of issues (01:47:41) - Example of supplier issue and solution (01:48:19) - Recovering from damage or getting back to baseline (01:49:11) - Recovering from missing IRS letter (01:49:35) - Applying fear setting to various situations (01:49:51) - Experimenting with podcast formats (01:51:05) - Fear setting helps drive without emergency brake (01:52:00) - Mention of the Saisei Foundation (01:53:37) - Encouraging people to join the email list for updates

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